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MPP Smith starts petition to extend Gilead deadline

Prince Edward Hastings MPP Todd Smith has started a petition for an extension to the Gilead Wind Turbine project ERB deadline now set for Jan. 30, 2012.
Smith introduced a bill last month in the legislature to return planning control for industrial wind turbine projects to municipal governments after the Liberal government’s Green Energy Act removed control. The Bill was defeated 45-32 at second reading on Dec. 1, when the Liberals and NDP teamed up.
Smith said several NDP and Liberal members whose municipalities had passed resolutions supporting the return of local control were absent from the debate and the vote.
Smith is now trying to get the EBR to do a more thorough public consultation in Prince Edward County and so, has requested the EBR extend its deadline for the project until April 1st.
“Given the environmental and economic consequences that are unique to Prince Edward County and in particular, the South Shore of Prince Edward County, I feel that the only fair thing for the Ministry of Environment to do in this circumstance is to conduct a much more thorough consultation,”
said Smith.
“I’ve already written the EBR and the Minister of Environment about extending the deadline. But they need to hear from the citizens of Prince Edward County. They can come into the office and sign the petition to support extending the deadline. But we’re also going to make it available online at http://www.toddsmithmpp.ca/petitions/GILEAD%20POWER%20PETITION.pdf  (to print off and gather signatures) They can, and should, also contact the EBR directly to make their voice heard.”
Smith says he’s determined “to make this a real public consultation process. That way, the government won’t be able to say that they didn’t hear opposition for the project. They will hear it loud and clear. I’ll make sure of it.”
The Ostrander Point project in Prince Edward County is posted to the Environmental Registry.
The proposal is a Class 4 Wind Facility with a total expected generation capacity of 22.5 megawatts, located in the area of Helmer and Babylon roads in southern Prince Edward County.
The proposal is to be posted for a 60-day public review and comment period starting Nov. 30. Questions or comments should be submitted by Jan. 29, 2012 to be considered part of the decision making process by the Ministry of the Environment. Comments submitted in writing or electronically using the website form must reference EBR Registry number 011-5239.
EBR details here:  http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/displaynoticecontent.do?noticeId=MTE1MDIx&statusId=MTcyMzgx&language=en

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  1. David Norman says:

    Tom:
    You state, “(Y) you the educated, use words to beat people into acceptance of your views.”
    I say, in the words of Edward Bulwer-Lytton, “True, This! — Beneath the rule of men entirely great, The pen is mightier than the sword. Behold the arch-enchanters wand! (County Sustainability Group)— itself a nothing! —
    But taking sorcery (Industrial Wind Turbines) from the master-hand
    To paralyse the Cæsars (Dalton McGuinty), and to strike the loud earth breathless! — Take away the sword (Green Energy Act) —States can be saved without it!”
    However, I do protest that this is not a “snobbery”… on reflection, perhaps only in the Monty Python-esque sense. This is an insidious attempt of my volition to draw the peoples’ attention back to the issue of this blog, its culmination, due to the extension afforded Todd Smith’s valiant efforts, fast approaching.
    Here I am reminded, in an analogous, “hyperbole” laden, context, of the destruction of our Earth as reflected by the “pseudo science” fiction characters of Ford Prefect and Arthur Dent. In the third of five parts of Douglas Adams’ book trilogy entitled “The Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”, aptly named “Life, the Universe and Everything”, Ford and Arthur find themselves, transported on a blue couch through a time-space anomaly, from a prehistoric earth environment to a cricket pitch near London, England. After determining the date from that days “Guardian” newspaper, they realize that they are only two days away from the destruction of the earth for a hyperspace bypass, by the Vogon. Interestingly, they had already escaped this fate in a previous time-space. While Arthur was consumed in “overwrought wailings”, Ford noticed, out of the corner of his eye, “an SEP” (somebody else’s problem) which could possibly offer reprieve from their impending doom. In an attempt to call Arthur’s attention to the SEP, Ford engaged in some “scare mongering verbosity”. And Tom, here is the crux of my indulgence in this explanation of our engagement in this virtual universe; While one can catch a glimpse of an SEP out of the corner of their eye, an SEP can only be truly seen and utilized by someone who “believes”. And, just so you don’t misinterpret my meaning here, Arthur and Ford do escape by choosing to believe in an SEP, which turned out, in this case, to be a space ship. Unfortunately, only to find themselves at the “Restaurant at the End of the Universe” where they enjoyed Tea and a Gargleblaster while waiting for their own and everyone else’s imminent extinction.
    Tom, there should always be time and space for you to be heard.

  2. Mark says:

    Well a good start would be to start with yourself and your special interest group since you just attacked the posters below your response. Calling a group out for their inappropriate rhetoric comes from a cool head not a devisive or attacking one.Calling the general public easy targets comes from arrogance. Nice of you to once again attempt to dictate to us however. You could step back with a cool head and take a real genuine look at the issues on the table. Can that many people be wrong? Is the Auditor General wrong? I believe a public inquiry as suggested would be in order. That would put the real story on the table and also identify the $$$$ trail. Unfortunately I doubt ths will ever happen as the truth would topple the government.

  3. Rob Williams says:

    I have no doubt there are many sincere people on both sides of the debate around wind turbines. Many wind turbine opponents have criticized the divisiveness of the debate. I agree with them and respectfully encourage them to urge their colleagues (see examples below) to stop attacking those who have a different view (e.g., members of the County Sustainability Group).

    Instead let’s focus energy on a joint effort to promote factual information which is supported by identified sources whose credibility we can examine and judge for ourselves.

    Let’s tone down the divisiveness by:
    • agreeing to disagree without being disagreeable;
    • continuing to attack arguments that we disagree with but
    • refraining from attacking a person for making them (i.e. refrain from “shooting the messenger”) – including this one.

    Thanks in anticipation of cooler heads prevailing.

  4. Gary Mooney says:

    Mark, I was intrigued by your comment regarding what might constitute a “real sustainability group”. Here is my comment in response:

    If someone was interested in starting up a “real” sustainability group, here are some principles that should be considered for adoption:
    1. Define sustainable activities as those where there is a balance among economic, social (including health), environmental and cultural factors.
    2. If an activity doesn’t meet the requirements of sustainability at the local level, it cannot be considered sustainable at the global level.
    3. Avoid aligning the group with Big Business and Big Government, which at this point are suspect regarding the concept of sustainability.
    4. Seek out and incorporate the views of local residents on sustainability, rather than preaching to them.
    5. Promote the concept of conservation and producing less, not more.

    And here are some basic criteria that should be met before a “real” sustainability group supports any activity as sustainable:
    1. Economic. Make sure that no group of residents at the local level is forced to suffer financial losses “for the greater good”. Any sacrifices should be shared by the whole community.
    2. Social. Ensure that the activity doesn’t generate serious divisiveness within the community, and that the group doesn’t add to divisiveness by denigration of others.
    3. Social. Apply the precautionary principle with respect to activities that may harm human health. This means erring on the side of caution rather than demanding absolute proof.
    4. Environmental. Make sure that the activity does not damage the local environment in order to achieve a tiny improvement at the global level.
    5. Cultural. Consider whether the activity is consistent with the natural and built heritage in the local area.

    Do others have additional ideas to offer?

  5. Tom says:

    @ Mr. David Norman..

    Am I supposed to be humbled by your eloquent attack? Not so. I continue to support IWTs. You attack people who are less educated as you. I do not have a “fetish” about this. I simply believe. I am certainly able to grasp the entire scope of all this debate. You the educated, use words to beat people into acceptance of your views.

    So please refrain from such snobbery.

  6. Mark says:

    The CSG has lost any credibility they ever had. This County needs a real Sustainabilty Group that will first listen to the residents rather than tell them what is best and then represent them strongly. We do not want to become another Wolfe Island. We are not easy targets!

  7. David Norman says:

    @Virginia
    The meaning of “hyperbole”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
    Take note of the sentence in the first paragraph; “It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.” I id not preface “predator prey” with a conditional descriptor. I meant what I said quite “literally”. And where is this science of which you speak? Please provide me with even one reference which on the basis of scientific evidence (proof) advocates the use of IWTs as a “principle variable” for any associated paradigm.

  8. virginia says:

    Look up hyperbole in the dictionary. I hold a degree in English. And there is science to support windmills.

  9. David Norman says:

    @ virginia
    You misuse the word hyperbole… I meant every word of my comment. And, just what is this science of which you speak. I can say unequivocally that there is not a single piece of “science” which advocates the use of Industrial Wind Turbines for anything. It is simply a technological choice made by Corporations and Governments which supports their chosen economic system that is reliant on creating commodities, in this case to ameliorate a resource dependent crisis. There are many other more ecologically appropriate possibilities and solutions that simply do not serve their, and apparently your, perspective on change.

  10. virginia says:

    Predator/Prey relationship? I find no credibility in hyperbole. I have come to my own conclusions based on my ability to use logic and to accept the credibility of GOOD science, not the overwrought wailings of those who indeed have other agendas, including those who would feed us pseudo science and scare mongering verbosity.
    My agenda is only to opt for the most logical, current, and scientifically supported choice.
    Many people in this county do support wind power, but most do not speak up, as they should. This is unfortunate.

  11. David Norman says:

    @ Tom et al:
    While I bare no ill will towards you or others who support the Industrial Wind Turbine (IWT) fetish, it is apparent, that despite the opposition you encounter in forums such as this, you have been conditioned to pay deference to systems of authority. In this case the Ontario Liberals under the Green Energy Act. You have been encouraged through stakeholder propaganda to believe in your own goodness. You seem unable to see or comprehend, or are indifferent to, the cruelty inflicted on the environment and other folk by the exclusive system that you have chosen to serve. In some manner of denial you have determined that in order to make the system work and subsequently preserve the status quo of the economic elites, for which you are rewarded with questionable honors to signify your loyalty, you must follow a (their) set of rules without question. Our world is being quickly transformed by corporate forces into a predator prey human relationship. The vast majority of our human primate species, or any other species for that matter are, through economic subjugation, prey. I offer this note of caution; one day “they” will decide to “consume you” to sustain themselves… in a sense, “they” have already done so.

  12. Liz Howes says:

    I try hard to remember all of the stats, but I can’t….yes, wind sounds wonderful…”green”, but it isn’t…back-up power always has to be running (like idling your car and speeding up, or down, during rush hour). We, the residents of Ontario, don’t need to be on the cutting edge of this technology….wait until hopefully it becomes more efficient…not now…not yet….

  13. Maria says:

    Regarding the effects of windmills on people, yes there are such documents easily found on the web. A quick search also revealed that Germany is indeed committed to placing the IWT’s away from shorelines and away from peoples residences.
    I think our problem in Ontario, is that the goverment is unwilling to consider either the health risks, quality of life risks and anything other than a get rich quick scam for a few land owners.
    I really don’t have any faith in the current Ontario goverment to “do the right thing.” It really troubles me that the NDP sided with the Ontario liberals on the last vote (perhaps due to the labour unions) and it equally troubles me that the Liberals took the power away from municipalites to have any say in this.
    It’s not just Prince Edward County, In every community accross Ontario (and worldwide) people are saying, no, I do not want 450′ Industrial Wind Turbines in my backyard! And rightfully so, there are tonnes of well documented cases of people suffering the ill effects of these things.
    I am not anti-green or anti-wind, but I am young and had hoped for a healthy life here in the county. There are no less than five of these IWT’s sheduled to be built within eyeshot of our house in Milford, and one next door within earshot for sure.
    Not once was a neighbour or goverment body required to ask me what I thought of this, and to me that is a major flaw in this process.
    I totally support small scale energy production on people’s land, but feel the greed involved with these will benefit a few families and leave the rest of us bitter and quite possibly in ill health.
    I have often wondered why Hydro one hasn’t developed in house meters that can tell us how much power we are using and consuming. What I mean is, I can very easily go to my furnace thermostat and see that I have used 24 furnace hours this week so far. Why aren’t these kind of tools being developed for inside peoples houses as it pertains to electrical usage.
    I have a pretty good handle on electronics, but how come until quite recently, my hydro bill had to be estimated and then reconciled?
    How come there aren’t easy ways to retrofit houses to allow for small scale energy production.
    $30,000 for a FIT system that Hydro one is no longer even offering seems a little much when I am penny pinching to pay for groceries…
    I now poeple on Wolfe island and they are still very much divided on the issue. The turbines are louder than anyone wants to admit, and the bird and bat carcasses are on the ground for anyone to see (if you don’t mind tresspassing to see them.)
    We should be learning from their mistakes, not jumping into the same boat.

    Thank-you again Todd for your commitment to this issue.

    Do these poeple not get paid enough to serve my interests?

  14. Richard Allen says:

    Wind energy is just bad power. Period. It’s incredibly inefficient, fails to aid in “ramp up” generation and can’t be stored which means that during the peaks, it creates excess power that we end up selling at a loss to other jurisdictions.

    The Auditor General’s report was very illuminating with regard to the poor implementation of this energy strategy by the current government. On everything from the FIT rates, to municipal planning authority, to setback regulations and the Samsung deal, the Green Energy Act proponents didn’t just drop the ball on this one, they dropped a hand grenade……….right in the lap of rural Ontario.

  15. yehudi zeno says:

    There are all kinds of statistics but it appears Germany produced 20% of their electricity in 2011 from various renewables.

    They seem to be in a hurry to phase out nuclear which currently supplies 50% of Ontario’s electricity and 20% or so of Germany’s and Germans appear to be bridging electricity production lost as nuclear plants are decommissioned in a variety of ways while they fast track creating electricity from renewable sources. Coal fired plants are one of the bridging methods.

    A question might be why are they eliminating nuclear.

    But first with 20,000+ windmills Germany should be able to tell us about the effects of windmills on people who live near them.

    That is my question.

    Has anyone seen an papers on this?

  16. Mark says:

    Perhaps it is the common sense delegation. And just maybe there are more people who disapprove of the Industrial Wind folly than those that want to ram it down our throats with no regard for the impacts or local decison making.

  17. Tom says:

    Again I reiterate….”Wind generation is good for us”. Other than one other comment it would appear that this site is only for the anti-wind delegation. We need more comments favouring wind turbine energy. Thanks Fred for your positive comment!!!! Now I look forward to more like this!

  18. Mark says:

    The government jumped in blindly without doing their due diligence homework. Leaving the health and environmental destruction aside for now, wind power is unreliable and way beyond the cost capabilities of middle class families to afford. Imagine investing billions of taxpayers dollars on such a folly when Ontario’s debt levels are inching towards a crisis.

  19. Maria says:

    It seems Germany is poised to build 26 new coal plants. In 2009 1.5% of power was from wind and other renewables.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany

    Not sure you have all the facts Yehudi.

    I also applaud Todd Smith for his efforts.

  20. yehudi zeno says:

    At the end of 2009, Germany possessed 21,614 wind power plants.

    Be interesting to know what adverse health effects these turbines have had on the German people living around them.

  21. virginia says:

    thank you, Fred. We need to hear from more people like you.

  22. Fred newcombe says:

    I think the wind mills are great thing
    I may be selfish
    I believe the sooner we start building them the better

  23. David Norman says:

    @ Virginia
    The problem with an empty gesture is that there is always someone who will decide to take you up on it… thus, it’s important to always practice rhetoric conservation. If we could make rhetoric a commodity in the same fashion as we have done with carbon we would all prosper… and why not, after all they’re both just “hot air”.

  24. David Norman says:

    @ Ernest Horvath
    Thank you for your gracious compliment on my poem. I just reread it and could see a need for a couple of edits… it came out as a stream of mocking consciousness over the course of several minutes of classic clarity. I always enjoy reading your responses to the “windjammers”… you have a facility for pointing out the delicious ironies that are presented for public consumption. Good fortune to you on your quest, regards, David.

  25. virginia says:

    nothing but political point making. truly an empty gesture.
    have a peaceful holiday all.

  26. Doris Lane says:

    Print off the petition and get your friends to sign it and send it to Todd

  27. Ernest Horvath says:

    David Norman., what a great piece of work!

  28. Peter Wheeler says:

    Excellent work Todd … you deserve the title “Honourable” member … some others do not.

  29. Alison Walker says:

    I’m so proud of you, Todd. Thanks for looking after our concerns in such a timely way. Merry Christmas to you, Tawnya and the girls. You all deserve it!! Alison

  30. Lawrence Cornett says:

    Objection re EBR #011-5239:
    Dated: Dec. 8, 2011

    The Objection Period Is Too Short
    1) The 2011-2012 Christmas/New Year Holiday Season unfairly shortens the objection period in favour of the proponent;
    No Common Law Jurisprudence
    2) Common Law cannot be applied to a government mandated law which skews the application in favour of the proponent;
    An International Issue
    3) The Senate of Canada is on record in its objection to fauna species damage in an area of International significance by the proponent;
    No Noise Standard
    4) No noise standard has been set by either the Ontario government or by the proponent; thus, no case can be made either way.

  31. David Norman says:

    I often wonder about who might read all of the letters of petition they receive. If all of the carefully expressed ideas and thoughts are truly taken into account. In this respect I thought I might take this opportunity to submit my protest in the form of a poem in a vain effort to get their attention:

    Tilting @ Windmills
    By David Norman

    In my vision is an army
    Friends of Wind their name perceived
    Giant Windmills as their henchmen
    Heroic Dulcinea to relieve

    These windmills spew electrons
    To sate the economic gain
    Of the technocratic one percent
    Who hold the value of this grain

    But the blades they cut so deeply
    Into the fabric of their mind
    That they’ve come to fetishise
    The very nature of their kind

    But the Kyoto of their power
    Has disappeared from view
    And the fascist act of green
    Has taken on a lighter hue

    Harken to the words of Lightfoot
    That lyric bard so grand
    He proclaimed my cause as righteous
    With a melody and band;

    “Through the woodland, through the valley
    Comes a horseman wild and free
    Tilting at the Windmills passing
    Who can this brave young horseman be?”

    I am he, the Don Quixote
    With my valour I will stand
    and will smite the giant windmills
    That foul brood upon the land

    I shall rescue the Dulcinea
    From the clutches of their minds
    The friends of wind shall wither
    And the winds of change will chime

    Don Quixote saw the moral
    Of this battle with this foe
    To foster prudent thinking
    Whence truth then will grow

  32. Treat Hull says:

    This is a good initiative and I, for one, will support it and sign the petition. At the same time, I encourage everyone who is concerned about Ostrander Point to submit their comments to the Ministry before the current deadline of January 29th expires.

  33. Ernest Horvath says:

    I thank you as well.
    I sent off a letter to Andrea Horwarth of the NDP who voted against restoring the say that that GEA took away from us.
    She has no problem with IWTs causing anyone problems.
    Or what they do to the environment.
    And of course being for the people , she thinks paying 3 times more for power than need to is just fine.
    It is very hard to tell your left from right anymore.

    Margaret Thatcher once said
    ” The problem with socialism is that eventually , you run out of other peoples money”

  34. Gil Charlebois says:

    Keep up the “Great Representative” work Todd. It’s about time we had a Member that listens to the Electorit/ Public conserns.
    Merry Christmas to you and yours.
    G&G

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